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Sat Mar 08, 2003 08:47
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*+**** Roxanne--Smith entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003 08:47
Roxanne Smith>>ABSTRACT
Roxanne Smith>>ABSTRACT This discussion stems from a work in progress, which looks at the socialization patterns of Appalachian women who are non-traditional aged students and their decisions to pursue higher education. The author's hypotesis is that the cultural frameworks of Appalachian family and community have influenced the life choices of these women, including their decisions involving higher education. Traditional gender roles of mother and partner can delay entrance into higher education, especially if they are the first members of thier family to attend college. Appalachian identity, educational history, traditional gender role expectations, feelings of placeboundness, role conflict, and religious influences are among the are s being researched.
Roxanne Smith>>Please contradict or verify if you think that Appalachian identity and culture affect the way education is regarded. For example, are there regional differences in attitudes relating to educatinal attainment? Does gender socialization influence issues relating to women's schooling? Are there changing norms from one generation to the next? Is the same level of education acceptable for males and female? Please share your opinions and experiences, both professional and personal. What is your educational history? Does it differ from your family members?
*+**** Douglas--Hanson entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003
08:56
Roxanne Smith>>good morning
Douglas Hanson>>good morning!
Roxanne Smith>>thanks for stopping by, Doug
Douglas Hanson>>my pleasure Roxanne...is there a paper associated with your discussion?
Roxanne Smith>>Where are you from? I'm sitting here at MU in my office.
Roxanne Smith>>Yes, it is for my thesis for a masters in Sociology
Douglas Hanson>>I work in Boston...live in Central, MA
Roxanne Smith>>Welcome to Appalachia (and WV so to speak/type)
Douglas Hanson>>thanks...i am relatively new ot Appalachian research...tell me a bit about your work..
Roxanne Smith>>I typed an abstract at the top, did you see it? I'm looking at gender socialization of non-traditional women students in App.
Douglas Hanson>>let me check...
Roxanne Smith>>My hypothesis is that App culture has influenced family and community norms.
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*+**** Katherine--Sohn entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003 09:02
Roxanne Smith>>I am researching women who left secondary education prior to 1984--prior to educational parity between males and females in higher education
Roxanne Smith>>Welcome Katherine
Roxanne Smith>>I typed an abstract at the beginning, can you access it?
*+**** Douglas--Hanson entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003 09:05
Roxanne Smith>>Also, are you in the same window/chat room as me? I tried to respond to you a moment ago and it wouldn't let me go to another
Douglas Hanson>>sorry Roxanne...i got into an endless loop with chat room...clicking on the chatroom link kept taking me to the login page
Douglas Hanson>>i don't see your abstract anywhere...just the title of your discussion
Roxanne Smith>>Well, hopefully we can all circumnavigate technology
Roxanne Smith>>Let me give you a hastily edited sentance or two.
Douglas Hanson>>ok
Roxanne Smith>>This discussion stems from a work in progress, which looks at the socialization patterns of App women who are non-traditional aged students and their decisions to pursue higher education.
Katherine Sohn>>I am so new and don't know where to access it
Douglas Hanson>>these are mostly women who have raised families and are returning to school?
Roxanne Smith>>ABSTRACT, con't --- My hypothesis is taht the cultural frameworks of Appalachian family and community have influenced the life choices of these women, including higher ed
Roxanne Smith>>Some have raised families, some are childless and/or never married. I'm one of the with-children section
Katherine Sohn>>I just finished a dissertation investigating Appal. women who graduated from Pikeville College, focusing on their literacy practices. All were married or divorced.
Roxanne Smith>>Katherine, jump right in, I'm not sure how this realtime stuff allows access
Katherine Sohn>>i figured it out. my first time.
Katherine Sohn>>that cultural framework you talk about is the reason most of our graduates remain in the area
Roxanne Smith>>Congrats on finishing your dissertation! what was the age range of your participants--
Roxanne Smith>>Placebound, yes!
Katherine Sohn>>They were 24-40 at the time of the study which was 3 years ago. I am nontraditional myself, finishing the degree at age 53.
Katherine Sohn>>Did we lose Doug?
Roxanne Smith>>Bless your heart! I'm 39, and began at MU as an undergrad at age 33
Roxanne Smith>>Doug what is your area of interest?
Douglas Hanson>>no...still here...helping my daughter with her report on Frederick Douglass
Katherine Sohn>>I think our being nontraditional students helps us with empathy and seeing the parallels between these women struggling and our own struggles.
Roxanne Smith>>Katherine, what was the framework for your research?
Roxanne Smith>>Yes! absolutely
Douglas Hanson>>Roxanne...in general what motivated most women to attain advanced degrees...
Katherine Sohn>>Those words like frameworks scare me. I used the concepts of silence, voice, and identity to illustrate their choices, their education, and now what they've done with it.
Roxanne Smith>>Various reasons, career advancement, personal interest, I am also including undergrads
Roxanne Smith>>Sorry, Sociologist coming out in me.
Katherine Sohn>>Doug, most of my women came to college because their husbands were disabled in the mines.
Roxanne Smith>>I went to grad school for me! my interests. My B.A. was so I'd have a degree.
Douglas Hanson>>do many of your non-traditional students go on to grad school...to further explore their own burgeoning intellectual interests?
Katherine Sohn>>Two of the 8 women went on to grad school; all of the teachers have to do rank 1 and all of that.
Roxanne Smith>>I don't know exact stats, good question, one to ponder. . . However, I've looked at several people who have left careers to pursue a grad degree in an area of interest and/or career path change.
Roxanne Smith>>Of your study, what programs were they in?
Douglas Hanson>>Katherine..the women who went to Pikeville...they went on to get teaching degrees?
Katherine Sohn>>they do see learning as lifelong, so that even if they don't go on to grad school, they take advantage of other learning opportunities. The nurse is pursuing correspondence masters degree
Katherine Sohn>>Doug, there were 5 of the 8 who were teachers--it was the most common degree of nontrad. woman at the time so they could be with their families in the summer.
Roxanne Smith>>Do you think that is because of role modeling and known career options? Also, jobs that keep them in the area as well?
Katherine Sohn>>Roxanne, yes, and the fact that there are just not many nontraditional jobs out there. In a depressed economy there aren't many choices for men or women.
Roxanne Smith>>Tell me about voice and identity, how did they develop? what impact did higher ed have on that aspect
*+**** Douglas--Hanson entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003
09:23
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Katherine Sohn>>They had voice in their families but they were silenced by the academic classroom--clash of cultures, so with writing in compposition classes, which I teach, they found discomfort and then gradual comfort telling their stories in writing
Higher ed helped them develop confidence more than anything.
Katherine Sohn>>Roxanne, what cultural influences are you finding in your study that led your women to choose higher ed?
Roxanne Smith>>I understand--I'm working as a secretary for a new grant funded (TRIO) Dept of ED program. "Heart of Appalachia, Educational OpportunIty Center" new and I wanted to work in the area of App studies and adult ed. There are not job ads for
Sociologists in Huntington but I knew that prior to grad school. I'll have to forge my own path
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Katherine Sohn>>your program sounds fascinating. So much in both appy studies and adult ed to support you, Im sure
Roxanne Smith>>Some wanted to expand their career options--lots of experience, but no degree. Others knew they would have to support themselves. Several I've talked to had gone through divorce and needed better paying jobs.
Katherine Sohn>>I had two who came because of divorce, two whose husbands divorced them after they got their degree because it threatened them too much.
Katherine Sohn>>How many women are you interviewing?
Roxanne Smith>>Yes, worth the salary, prior to graduation, etc. then come student loans. But I know I'm fortunate to work in a field of my interest --I left a "good job" as an Admin Asst in Manufacturing to go to grad school
*+**** Douglas--Hanson entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003
09:31
Roxanne Smith>>I've interviewed five, with several more scheduled. I don't know if I can get five more this spring. I know I'll keep doing research anyway.
Katherine Sohn>>I could be in grad school the rest of my life; reality sucks. I don't know what it is but using my mind after having two kids and then working in education.
Roxanne Smith>>What about role conflict and your participants--and you!
Douglas Hanson>>grad school IS difficult to leave..
Roxanne Smith>>I agree about grad school
Roxanne Smith>>Doug, what's your bio?
Douglas Hanson>>i am a biological anthropologist...PhD from Cornell...research in Micronesia
Douglas Hanson>>i spent years working on my diss....got involved in too many tangential research projects
Douglas Hanson>>and Micronesia is an aphrodisiac
Douglas Hanson>>who wants to leave Paradise...LOL
Katherine Sohn>>the women definitely experienced role conflict, worried about their kids, one's husband would not let her bring her books into the house, etc. They wanted the degree bad enough to put up with it.
Roxanne Smith>>Regarding the divorce after graduation, do you think that there were threads of insecurity already there? I would think so, they'd be felt in other areas
Roxanne Smith>>Right Doug, I just wished my corner of paradise paid better. App studies isn't where the money's at. --It's just like a "love of the land"
Katherine Sohn>>Doug, I think research is difficult for that very reason that one exploration of truth leads to another possibility and go on. I put all of those in questions for further research in my conclusion. Of course I didn't want to be in the ret home finishing this degree.
Douglas Hanson>>yes...that is true of most graduate research...we do it for the love of it and not what comes after..
Roxanne Smith>>Doug, what about App studies? You commented you were a newbie
Douglas Hanson>>yes..i have friends involved in app studies and wanted to know more about it..
Roxanne Smith>>I want my mind to be stimulated, thinking is for me without home/family/reality influences.
Katherine Sohn>>Roxanne, the treads of insecurity had to be there; seeing their wives so strong perhaps brought it to a head.
Douglas Hanson>>i am involved in biomedical anthropology...seems that Appalachia has a good number of people doing some interesting research in the region..
Katherine Sohn>>i think the home/family/reality stuff educates one part of us but doesn't give us stimulation in the mental realm.
Katherine Sohn>>Doug, what an incredible field? Do you teach at Marshall? Where is the research being done?
Douglas Hanson>>No..i don't teach at Marshall...i work at a small independent non-profit in Boston...The Forsyth Institute...mostly focused on oral health issues...mostly children's oral health
Douglas Hanson>>a friend of mine...Connie Leinen...put me on to some of the interesting work being done through the Med School at Marshall
Katherine Sohn>>what is the thread of the Med school research?
Roxanne Smith>>Right, I also preach that your life prior to college is valid, your experiences should not be negated. Unfortunately, many feel that education is real knowledge/learning--that life experiences are not "official". I beg (or scream) to difer.
Roxanne Smith>>I love Connie, she was one of the people I interviewed for this research. She is the mastermind behind this conference
Katherine Sohn>>In fact, educators should examine that life experience, use it as the knowledge base for what they are passing along to students (most as if the women are empty vessels waiting to be filled)..
Katherine Sohn>>So Roxanne, you are at Marshall?
Douglas Hanson>>i agree...the extended life experience prior to college makes for a much more dedicated student....in many cases someone who loves learning...
Roxanne Smith>>Yes, physically at this moment, as well as our program being here.
Douglas Hanson>>yeah...Connie put me on to the conference...she is a miracle worker
Douglas Hanson>>and has contacts everywhere...
Katherine Sohn>>Do you know Dolores Johnson? She got her doctorate in the same program as mine.
Douglas Hanson>>but fortunately/unfortunately i was one of those who went from high school to college to grad school...mind set on what he wanted to do throughout...
Katherine Sohn>>Doug, nothing wrong with that, it appears that you continue to keep learning and rejuvenate yourself.
Douglas Hanson>>i have to admire the strength and determination of the non-traditional students i have met...and their love of learning
Douglas Hanson>>oh yes...learning is a passion of mine...LOL...just started Tango lessons..
Katherine Sohn>>And for me, the motivation to learn in spite of learning difficulties is inspirational as they sit next to some 18 year old who wonders why he's in class.
Roxanne Smith>>What App traits impacted your participants the most--App identity, etc. What were some of the predominant themes?
Douglas Hanson>>Connie is a good example...working full time and going to school full-time...
Katherine Sohn>>one of the most common themes was the need to hang on to their common sense which they felt they might lose with an education which is connected to their not wanting to get above their raisings (or too uppidy for their families)
*+**** Robert--Wilson entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003 09:51
*+**** Robert--Wilson entered CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003 09:51
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Roxanne Smith>>you have to keep the love of learning alive--if you're not impassioned and your a non-trad, it's not worth the sacrifice. You either quit/take a break or just do what you need to do to get out--role conflict
Roxanne Smith>>Hello Robert
Robert Wilson>>Hello
Robert Wilson>>How is your session?
Katherine Sohn>>another appalachian theme was that most were more comfortable with hands-on, practical kinds of learning. I was like that with my doctorate: show me the application of this theory or I am lost.
Katherine Sohn>>Robert, our session is great
Katherine Sohn>>
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Douglas Hanson>>Katherine...is that true of many of the other women you interviewed? the hands-on?
Roxanne Smith>>Do you see that as App? I keep hearing "The more more college the more stupid you get" - direct quote. I am sure part of that stems from insecurity, however, I've also found that there is an opionion that anything beyond a bachelors if frivolous?
Katherine Sohn>>Doug, the only exception was the art major and she actually liked the hands-on part of art as well as the creative.
*-**** Robert--Wilson left CSEGACONFERENCE_Room1. Sat Mar 08, 2003 09:55
Roxanne Smith>>Robert, fyi, we are now discussing App attitudes toward the necessity of higher ed.
Katherine Sohn>>Roxanne, after I typed that, I saw that it wasn't particularly Appalachian. In this region, anything beyond high school was seen as frivolous.
Douglas Hanson>>Katherine/Roxanne, tell us about the families of non-traditional students in Appalachia...how supportive/non-supportive do they tend to be
Katherine Sohn>>Interesting that the influences for these women were mostly their mothers who said, "i didn't get the chance; you do it" and they helped their daughters while they were in college.
Roxanne Smith>>Do you see this hands-on as "real work" as well as confidence--as in not cerebral-insecurities. For example, get your nose out of a book and get to work, you should be doing something
Roxanne Smith>>!
Roxanne Smith>>Yes, I agree, woman-centered support
Katherine Sohn>>I think there's that view of things and perhaps finding something they could connect to in the university schema
Katherine Sohn>>Doug, the other nonsupport was from relatives who thought the women should be home with their children, that they were losing their religious values (questioning their fundamental faith beliefs),
Katherine Sohn>>Most families were supportive.
Douglas Hanson>>interesting...the "hands-on" a residual effect of getting some practical benefit from high education aside from just learning?
Roxanne Smith>>My mama says that with each generations we are able to obtain more education (encouragement and assistance for this) My grandma went thorough the equivalent of elementary school, my mom high school (she dropped out and then back in) and 'beauty college". I went to business school-considered more upwardly mobile, seen as a necessity by my family. Then the college thing. She's very proud of this
Katherine Sohn>>It looks like our time is almost up. Roxanne, I definitely want to connect with you. will you be at ASA in Richmond?
Roxanne Smith>>How much religious influence did you find? I asked that but didn't see any cultural-lag lingering
Roxanne Smith>>Yes, I'll be at the ASA, we should connect.
Katherine Sohn>>Your mother sounds like mine. She had one year of business college and always felt inferior to her dying day that she couldn't finish college.
Roxanne Smith>>My email is smith221@marshall.edu
Douglas Hanson>>it was a pleasure "reading" both of you...thanks for spending the time here..
Roxanne Smith>>Actually, we have until 11:00 according to the schedule, or later, I suppose, if we want it.
Roxanne Smith>>However, I understand if you all need to leave.
Roxanne Smith>>Thanks for participating, I've really enjoyed this. Nice meeting you both. We can always continue on a discussion list, or regular email
Roxanne Smith>>Doug, I hope you found this interesting
Katherine Sohn>>I need to be moving on. I am trying to get a manuscript to my editor by the end of this month and count on Saturdays to catch up. Wonderful discussion. I am sohn@kymtnnet.org Doug best to you in your work.
Douglas Hanson>>i did...i am looking forward to the roundtable discussion later..
Douglas Hanson>>yeah...i have a paper to present in Milwaukee next month and need to get it up on the web well before then...
Roxanne Smith>>I'm going to walk over and watch
Douglas Hanson>>i found the discussion very interesting...i would like to learn more...CSEGA looks like an excellent resource
Roxanne Smith>>Role conflict never ends, I understand-I took yesterday off to stay home and work on my thesis.
Katherine Sohn>>I agree. I for one am glad that there's more attention to the issues of gender and race and of course class which is the major revelation for me in all this work. Goodbye
Roxanne Smith>>CSEGA is a best kept secret that is now being discovered--hopefully not too little too late
Roxanne Smith>>Good bye Katherine
Douglas Hanson>>if you seen Connie Roxanne...tell her i can't seem to get into the Transgender presentation that was given yesterday...just won't play
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Roxanne Smith>>I think that there is a time/production lag. This was the case with Thursday's first presentation.
Roxanne Smith>>They're still working all the bugs out. Cutting edge, et al.
Douglas Hanson>>ahhh...i hear that Carrie Kline's work should not be missed
Roxanne Smith>>Revelations is great! I saw it when she did her initial presentation
Douglas Hanson>>I think you folks have done a superb job here given the limits of the technology...
Douglas Hanson>>in addition to my research i am also the person responsible for information technology at Forsyth so i can understand..
Roxanne Smith>>App determination. we'll keep at it, even if it kills us
Douglas Hanson>>LOL..yes, i understand that is quite unique to Appalachia...
Roxanne Smith>>You have my utmost respect (again) I'm a person that guarantees you all job security.
Roxanne Smith>>I'll see Connie in a few minutes--I'll tell her we chatted. I was with her last night as well as a bunch of the scholars. Connie is great
Douglas Hanson>>Yes...she is one-of-a-kind....i hope she hangs in there and finishes up and goes to grad school...
Roxanne Smith>>I was Rosemarie Mincey's (Latina textileworkers) G.A so I feel fortunate to have been involved
Douglas Hanson>>i first met Connie on the Anthro-L list....her writing is superb...she puts most of us professionals to shame..LOL
Roxanne Smith>>Actually, all the scholars have done great work.
Douglas Hanson>>yes....i have read all of their works now....excellent work!
Roxanne Smith>>Yes, I first met her in an App Lit class--she amazed me with her wit. Then we kept bumping into each other . . .
Douglas Hanson>>and now i must go and assist my daughter with her report...she is flailing her arms at me as we speak...enjoy the rest of the conference and thanks for being here to chat..
Roxanne Smith>>I appreciate your participation. I think that we've won the prize for longest chatting.
Roxanne Smith>>Have a good day. Perhaps we'll chat again.
Douglas Hanson>>good...be well Roxanne...
Roxanne Smith>>Bye
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Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:15
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