MCNEEL: . . . two-hundred years old.
ALEX.: Yeah. Yeah.
MCNEEL: In real good condition . . . ah, it was twice as big, and my
great uncle, just after the Civil War, the second shingle
roof had rotted off of it when he came back from the Civil
War. Of course, he didn't have anything. . . . They'd had
fought the battles up and down this valley; . . . took all
the cattle . . . They didn't have any stock of any kind of
anything, . . . so he tore half of it down . . . just took
a crosscut saw and went in and sawed the logs off . . .
and tore that end of it down because he didn't think he
would ever need it . . . he said he regretted it the rest
of his life . . . but the. . . plate logs . . . that's the
logs that the rafters set on . . . the top . . . are black
walnut 30 feet long 18 inches square . . . they're just as
solid as the day they were put up there. I doubt whether
you could find a black walnut tree in West Virginia that
would yield logs like that today . . . anywhere.
ALEX.: Anywhere . . . that's true . . . yes, sir, most of the
black walnuts have been taken out.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Eighteen inch square?
MCNEEL: 30 feet long but then of course the rafters were poles hewed
out six inches, . . . and they were so heavy that they put a
false plate halfway up on the rafters . . . where they went
up to the top . .. and that's black walnut . . . hewed out
about eight inches square . . . Then through the center of
the barn post went up, and they put side braces into hold
the posts you know. They cut all that, mortested it and
cut the mortest out, and the tongue on the pieces where
they would fit together down on the ground . . . chopped
Roman Numerals on each one, so they could tell which end to
put up when they got it up there.
ALEX.: Yeah. Yeah.
MCNEEL: So . . . they were real. . . those old timers were real
ingenious people . . . they knew how to do things.
ALEX.: Yeah. They had to think didn't they?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Sure did. They had to use that mind. . . You know we spend
a lot of time making things easy and part of it has let
the mind go fallow.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Yes. Yes it has.
MCNEEL: The only thing I remember my great uncle telling me about
the barn was that people came from Greenbrier . . . oh I
suppose other sections of Pocahontas County . . . to help
raise the barn . . . they talked about at that time . ..
and the only thing that I remember that he told me about
it was that they drank . . . drank a fifty gallon barrel
of Brandy while they were building that barn.
(Laughs)
MCNEEL: . . . that the only thing that has stuck in my mind about
it all.
(Laughs)
MCNEEL: I didn't even ask him how . . . I've often wondered how
they got those logs up as high as they were . . . those
heavy logs.
ALEX.: I don't know . . . maybe they might have made a three pole
set and pulled 'em up on a pulley.
MCNEEL: Well . . . I've wondered . . .
ALEX.: Yes, sir . . . used a pulley.
MCNEEL: Either that or used skids . . . it would take real long
skids to do it that high.
ALEX.: Skid 'em across . . . yeah . . . that would be another
way probably. . . That Mill Point situation is kind of
interesting . . . you say the griss mills were there?
MCNEEL: One of the mills is still there the other one . . . we had
a flood in that creek . . . Stomping Creek. . . is the name of
the little creek that goes down through there . . . the
state road has it Stamping Creek but that's not
right . . . the . . . my father and grandfather told me
that . . . it got its name from Buffalo stomping holes in
the mud along the creek. So it was Stomping Creek not
Stamping Creek.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: But in 1935, they had a flash flood back in the mountain back
Here, . . . and the lower mill stood right on the edge of
the creek bank . . . And the side was built up with big
stone pillars under it . . . Oh, the pillars were six feet
square I guess . . . but it was right on the edge of the
a creek bank but the water was so swift that it washed the
earth out from under those pillars . . . and the mill fell
down . . . the lower one fell down . . . and of course
after that they just tore it up. But the old red mill
that my grandfather owned is still standing. The wheels
. . . it doesn't run anymore . . . it has an overshot
wheel . . . it doesn't run anymore . . . I've been trying
to get someone to fix it up just to grind corn mill. . . and
buckwheat flour.
ALEX.: Yeah. Well they have one at Green Bank like that . . .
someone has a mill setting up there. You say he was also
a merchant there?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: I'll probably run through a little bit of this just for
securities sake . . . with one of the other tapes
but . . .
MCNEEL: He started out before he bought this farm over here . . .
He was a merchant in Edray on the other side of Marlinton. Then he sold that out
there, and he came down here and bought the mill and built a store.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: Ah . . . the original store building washed away in the
1935 flood. They converted it into a blacksmith's shop in
later years and built a new store building . . . the old
one washed away . . . that was another thing that all my
life I can remember they . . . My father and grandfather
kept a blacksmith hired over there all the time . . . to
shoe horses and repair wagons . . .
ALEX.: Uh huh. Take care of that kind of thing.
MCNEEL: . . . but the '35 flood ended that because it washed all
the tools away . . . When the building went away, why we
found tools all the way to the river . . . the next . . .
well we searched around . . . of course, a lot of people
found a lot that we didn't find.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: But ah . . . there never was anymore ____ but there was a
still a little shaney like blacksmith shop after that but
of course that was . . . blacksmiths were going out.
ALEX.: Yeah. Now let's go over that family history just in case
that tape didn't work again. You say your great uncle
settled here? Is that right?
MCNEEL: No, sir! My . . . my grandfather . . . five generations
back settled here.
ALEX.: Settled here. Okay . . . alright . . . now you set me
straight. (laugh)
MCNEEL: And ah . . . then my great uncle was the one I can
remember living here.
ALEX.: Your great uncle lived here?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. And at his death . . . he . . . had willed his farm
to my older brother . . . my only brother only lived seven
years . . . and he died and he willed it to me . . . in
his will and I've had it ever since.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: That was in 1947 when my older brother died . . .
(SKIP)
ALEX: Yeah, many of ours is still there.
ALEX.: You say this log barn is about two-hundred years old?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir . . . made in . . .
ALEX.: Interesting . . . interesting way they laid those logs up.
Yes, sir, it sure is.
MCNEEL: This whole country is hollow . . . caves under it.
WIFE: I know lime stone.
MCNEEL: Is it? We have one that these spelunkers like to go in a
lot . . . up here just around on the other side of this
hill.
WIFE: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: but it must be from the opening up there down to the
Seebert. You can see over there where you go
down to Seebert. And they have it mapped down to that
far. They've been under the ground there from back here
all the way down through there. I have a map of it there
at home . . . they gave it to me.
WIFE: Have you ever been down in it?
MCNEEL: No Ma'am!
(Laugh)
MCNEEL: No, ma'am, and I'm not going to either. We have a pasture
farm up at Swago . . . seven miles north of here that has
according to their story . . . the Spelunker's
story . . . I don't know I don't have it authentically,
. . . but the largest single room cave in West Virginia
. . . it's over 3 hundred yards long . . . just one big
lime stone arched ____. I've never been in it either.
(Laugh) Like to have got a fellow killed up there . . .
a Canadian . . . there was Canadian people from the
University of Montreal come down here a lot . . . and ah
. . . was going down in one . . . when a big rock broke
loose and just crushed him against the wall.
ALEX.: Uh . . . how long ago was that?
MCNEEL: Two years ago.
ALEX.: Two years ago.
ALEX: That's enough to keep me out of them forever.
ALEX.: Well . . . is this a family cemetery we're going to here?
MCNEEL: It was started out as a family cemetery . . . it's a
community one now. MCNEEL started it. The first grave
was in here during the battle of Point Pleasant.
ALEX.: Is that right.
MCNEEL: The old original McNeel settled here was with the
Greenbrier Division at Point Pleasant . . . fight . . .
our cousin Cornstock.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: And while he was gone his WIFE had their first baby, and it
died. And she and a slave woman bought it up here and
buried it on top of this hill from down where I live
. . . from the old home down there . . . that was the
first grave that was . . . up here. And after * after he
came back, . . . he was quite a Methodist . . . He's built
a church up here some place . . . called it the White Pole
Church . . . but it only stood for less than a year and
the Indians burnt it, and he never did build another one.
But they continued to use it as a grave yard.
ALEX.: Is that right?
ALEX: Yes, sir. Well . . . Cornstock's people got pretty upset
over what happened to Cornstock, and his son over at Point
Pleasant. They took some of their wrath out on some of
the people over in this country.
MCNEEL: Well . . . we would . . . I guess we would have gotten
upset over it too--wouldn't we?
ALEX: Oh, sure. I've got some of the accounts of some of the
kidnaps of some of the people down and around Monroe
County.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
. . . were carried on over into the Ohio as the result of
the murder . . . really of Cornstock and his son over at
Point Pleasant.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
(SKIP)
ALEX.: . . . years I'd say too.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir . . . yes, sir, we are going to have to do
something.
ALEX.: How long as that gate been like that?
MCNEEL: This fence was built here in 1938.
ALEX.: 1938, huh.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . up on top. But this . . . well there wasn't any
caretaker of it for a number of years . . . grew up . . .
had locust trees this big in it . . . And oh 15 years ago
16, we decided we were going to clean it up and get it in
condition to mow . . . it's still not in very good
condition . . . but you know the old time graves they
mounded 'em up . . . it was full of mounded graves and you
couldn't mow it with a mower. So we got a tractor in here
. . . shovels and maddoxs, and they were covered with Myrtle
. . . you know the tiny little vine that grows in most
graveyards for some reason I don't know why. And we took
all the top soil off. 4 inches I guess, worked it down as
smooth as we could get it by hand and what equipment we had.
And got it in this condition, but in the process, . . . I'll
show you out there, . . . we found a little cover stone for a
baby's grave. And I'm sure that was where the first child was
buried . . . that was . . . but we dug then all around down
deep trying to find a tomb stone with a name on it . . . never
could find it.
ALEX.: Huh.
MCNEEL: Never did find it just found that cover stone . . . was
all that we ever found.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . Gruffy.
ALEX.: Gruffy.
MCNEEL: That's a name . . . an old name in this community.
There's the little cover stone that we found. That was
the daughter of the old original John McNeel. She was
born in 1776. Died in 1818.
ALEX: Borned the year we got our independence.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: And this is the old original John's grave. It needs some
work on it. It's beginning to fall over. He died in 1825
. . . 80 years old.
ALEX.: Age 80. Does it have senior after it? No . . .
MCNEEL: Yeah . . .
ALEX.: Yeah, that's senior. Uh huh . . . after his name.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. I don't know why they did that because he
didn't have any sons . . . John . . .
ALEX.: Well . . . huh . . . made you believe he did when they
write that but whether he did . . .
WOMAN: Could be that he had
nephews who had been named John.
MCNEEL: Well I guess that could be true . . . yes.
ALEX.: Yeah. Yeah. Was this his WIFE?
MCNEEL: Yes . . . that's his WIFE.
ALEX.: She lived to be 88 . . . died in 1830. And then
Issac . . .
MCNEEL: Issac.
ALEX.: . . . died in 1832. Was Issac a . . .
MCNEEL: A son.
ALEX.: A son. Born in 1775.
MCNEEL: In the trees that you can see over . . . you can see a
white house and then another white house and then just the
top of one that's the Pearl Buck birthplace . . . just the
top of the three that you can see. House down the highway
there.
ALEX.: Uh huh. Peaceful place up here.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. You seldom ever come up here that there's not
a breeze. Very seldom. . . you ever get up here that there's
is not a breeze blowing.
ALEX.: Yes, sir. We got one today.
MCNEEL: In the winter time it is more than a breeze. (Laughs)
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . all this section in here. It was slave days and
they just set a stone up . . . there's . . . the . . . the
rocks that you can see down there are the only colored
family . . . that I know who they are.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: All there are sunk graves in the graveyard, but this is
marked. Somebody did that for one of them so we left it. But the others . . .
lime stone rocks . . . nobody knew who they were and it was just so hard to mow
around we just hauled them away.
ALEX.: Now do you know where the open plots are in this
site . . . you really don't?
MCNEEL: No, sir. No, sir I . . .
ALEX.: How do you do that when you use it?
MCNEEL: Well . . . the family plots where there is a grave or two
left in the family plots are the only thing that are used
now.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: I'm going to . . . this site over here of course is
turning down over, and it's rocky back there. I'm going to
fence in about another acre of this in down here because
I'm going to be buried up here myself.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: My family plot which is over there is filled up.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: No more graves in it, so I'm just going to fence in some
down here.
ALEX.: Now you have Lanny the on . . . do you have any more sons?
MCNEEL: No, sir. I have two daughters.
ALEX.: Two daughters.
MCNEEL: My older daughter lives out in Indiana, and my younger
Daughter, I gave her 25 acres of land across the way. A
strip of land that was completely separated from the farm,
so I gave it to her and she built her a house last year.
She and her husband built them a house on it last year.
ALEX.: It's good that they are close.
MCNEEL: A mile from here.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: In fact I gave both my daughters . . . I had two strips of
wood land that was not connected to the farm, so I gave it
to my daughter in Indiana so she would have a little bit
of land in West Virginia, too.
ALEX.: Keep it for a future residence or something.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: How many acres are in this farm now? It originally was
quite a large estate wasn't it?
MCNEEL: There is 1,200 in this farm . . . right now, and we had
2,100 all together. But they're in separate farms. One is
at Swago and one next to Denmar . . . and this farm. Our
land runs to the top of this first mountain, and the one
back there to the big low place you can see in the
mountain.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: . . . the line fence comes down just to the right of that
big low place in the mountain back there . . . and down and back of this . . .
ALEX.: Most of it's cleared?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. We didn't have too much wooded land. It's
grown up . . . a lot of the steep land is growing up
awful bad . . . in recent years.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: . . . but it came along and the old man found out that he
hadn't killed his opponent and went back . . . they are
the people . . . not those two but their descendants are
the people who made the stands.
ALEX.: I guess Kennison Mountain is the name for that.
MCNEEL: That's right. Yes. Yes, sir.
ALEX.: That part of the Kennison.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. That's right.
ALEX.: What's the oldest map you've seen of this area? 1700?
1800?
MCNEEL: Oh, 1800's. I don't think I've seen any 1700's maps that
I remember of.
ALEX.: I found the 1883 that's in Hardesty which is an
encyclopedia. Which is a pretty good map and this
property is mentioned on it as I recall.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Yes, sir. And ah . . . up in the other end of the county
the Slavin's cabin is mentioned.
MCNEEL: Uh huh.
ALEX.: And the Kennison cabin is mentioned on that map I think.
Now I . . .
MCNEEL: I guess that the Kennison cabin would be back over in
Hills Creek in this Jaycox area.
ALEX.: Well, I don't know where I'm pointing . . .
MCNEEL: I'm not sure . . . this is Kennison Mountain here you
can't see it . . . It's so foggy you can't see Kennison
Mountain from here . . . it's the second range back.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: But the Kennison's originally settled in that ____,
Jaycox, Hills Creek area.
ALEX.: Yeah.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . John and Issac.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: I said he didn't have a son John but he did. John and
Issac. And they of course as the generations went down
till some of the other families around here are more
closely related . . . now my line came from Issac.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: Are more closely related to the John McNeel line than I am
being a McNeel but the Edgars are more closely related to
the McNeel's from that branch than I am.
ALEX: . . . when you come to the tree.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. (Laughs)
ALEX.: Price has all this probably in his history?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. A good deal of it is in his . . . well all of
John is in there. This is where my father and mother are
buried . . . right here . . . Skip . . . and his WIFE is
there who owned the place where I live down there . . .
that's their sons there.
ALEX.: Nice monuments.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir . . . my father . . . years later had this stone
made from the same kind of marble.
ALEX.: Now your father died in 1955?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Okay.
MCNEEL: . . . and my mother in 1940.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . we keep 80 or 90 replacements of new lambs . . . I
like to get them when they are just new lambs, but I like
to get them fit before cold weather . . . it works out
real good when were take 'em down and have them shear about
80 of them for us . . .
(Laughs)
*: At the State Fair.
(Laughs)
MCNEEL: They enter a contest, and they give a ten dollar prize to
the winner and five dollars to second place, and we get our
sheep clipped.
ALEX.: They also sell steers down there you say?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir . . . the baby beefs are being sold down there of
course the feeder calves . . . what feeder calves we sell will
be sold over at Jackson Mill.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . here is a novel story . . . since you're interested
in the saw milling business. This stone right
there, . . . Elmer somebody, . . . I've forgotten his
last name, . . . was a workman for a laborer . . . Elmer
Jones . . . was a laborer for ah . . . Warren Sawmill that
I told you was over on the creek over here . . . and he
got killed on the mill . . . the saw caught a slab and hit
him in the head . . . and killed him . . . nobody knew
where he came from . . . he was just a drifter . . . that
came in and went to work. . . A young man . . . and
ah . . . they kept his body as long as they could back
then . . . of course nobody embombed . . . and finally the
lumber company brought him up here and buried there . . .
nobody has ever been here . . . don't have any idea of
where he came from at all.
ALEX: Let's see . . . 1889 . . . was his birth huh . . .
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX: December 23rd it looks like . . .
*: Can you read it down there?
*: When was his death Bobby . . . can you read his
death . . . it's covered nearly with dirt it's down below
. . .
*: Okay.
*: . . . what's the date . . . March . . .
*: March 13, 1910.
*: March 13, 1910. I wonder if that was Friday the 13th?
(Laughs)
ALEX.: . . . since you are interested in the saw milling
business . . .
MCNEEL: Oh yes.
ALEX.: Who put the stone there? The lumber company?
MCNEEL: The lumber company did.
ALEX.: Now the Warren Company you told me was the one that
brought the lumber out on the west side of the Cranberry.
MCNEEL: Right.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: Uh huh.
ALEX.: And the other company . . .
MCNEEL: Reigns.
ALEX.: Reigns brought it out and used Warren's tracks . . .
MCNEEL: Used Warren's railroad.
ALEX.: Brought the closest timber.
MCNEEL: That's right . . .
(Laughs)
MCNEEL: . . . I never could understand that . . . how that got
worked around that away . . . but that's what happened.
ALEX.: Well, I'll declare.
MCNEEL: You know you wouldn't think they just didn't pay any
attention to a fellow workman getting killed . . . but
they . . . let the county or somebody else . . . but they
didn't do things like that.
ALEX.: . . . they were concerned about it.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. And that's another thing I would like for
you . . . if you go into the Museum . . . the old
undertaker that ah . . . lived in Hillsboro kept these
records . . . you know . . . ledgers. . . open ledger . . .
and his daughter let me have it just to read . . . of the
deaths . . . how they . . . if they were accidently killed
why he told about that . . . a very complete record . . .
and then how they paid him . . . with blackberries . . .
and potatoes . . . all that sort of thing . . . and that
record is still in the museum . . . his daughter told me
when you get through looking at it I want to donate it to
the museum. So I took it up . . . it's up there . . . If
you have an opportunity to go in . . . try to look it up
it is real interesting.
ALEX.: I'll look for that.
MCNEEL: Real interesting.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . at the corner there . . . there are two graves
there . . . of a family of Roses . . . and they're buried
in solid limestone rock . . . we worked for three days
trying to blast out enough to get the casket covered.
ALEX.: Huh.
MCNEEL: They're just in solid rock down there.
ALEX.: I'll declare.
MCNEEL: Of course it's covered up now . . . when we . . . when we
slopped off that steep there, we took the top soil and
covered them over . . . and got them buried a little bit
deeper. But they just barely were buried enough to cover
the rough box that's what they were buried in in that
rock.
(Laugh)
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . Cave Run and on down on the river.
*: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: I put in ____ in the fall of the year trying to find those
cattle . . . they just turn 'em loose. They do some of
that yet . . . don't they back in the hills?
MCNEEL: A few people do but not very many anymore.
ALEX: Too valuable.
MCNEEL: Well . . . you see . . . it's all full of roads now . . .
and they can just go to Camden on Gauley if they want to.
Right on down the river . . . the last year after my
father died I ____ for seven or eight years but the last
year seven of 'em we never did find . . . so I decided at
that time to get out of that section of the country and
try to keep them a little closer . . . (laughs) . . . too
valuable and too expensive for that . . . they get lost
that way.
ALEX.: Yeah.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . Springs farm. There's three springs on it. One
down . . . you see that hole down there?
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: . . . and then there's on at this barn back here and then
the one at my house, which just comes out from under a
limestone rock and goes right back under another one.
ALEX.: Is that right?
MCNEEL: That's where we got the name for the farms . . . we called
it Sinking Springs Farm
ALEX.: Oh yeah. You incorporated two years ago?
MCNEEL: Yes.
ALEX.: Your son . . . got . . . that's when he got out of
school . . .
MCNEEL: Well . . .
ALEX.: He got out of school a little early I take it.
MCNEEL: Yes. No he had worked on the farm . . . but it's
incorporated between my three children and myself . . .
husbands are not included and neither is mine . . . it
being a corporation.
*: (Laughs) Yeah.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . of course I don't tell the IRS this . . .
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . the original building . . .
ALEX.: But you say that ____ just sort of set off in the kitchen,
and they set up there and they brought the food down
through an open ____.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
*: If you would like to go in the old mill over at Mill Point
and look around at some of the things . . . would you be
interested?
*: Oh I'd be delighted. Yes, sir. I don't have . . .
ALEX: Well . . . I'll drive over with you unless you all go back
in . . . now if you go back in . . . I'll drive you over
and bring you back.
MCNEEL: No . . . I'll take my pickup. I have my keys with me to
my pickup . . . I'll just take it over.
*: Okay.
ALEX.: That belonged to your brother . . . didn't it?
MCNEEL: Yes. It belongs to my brother . . . I . . .
*: . . . lost my key, and I had one made.
*: Want a little silicone . . . lubricant?
*: Well I . . .
*: Well look a here . . .
AT MILL
MCNEEL: It's not too clean in here . . .
ALEX: I'll tell you . . .
MCNEEL: This was last used in 1942.
ALEX.: 1942.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. That was . . .
MCNEEL: . . . there was a stoop here . . . you can see
where . . . back there . . . had a roof over it.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: And before we built this road, . . . they . . . they . . .
there's a . . . in the flour part of it . . . there
was . . . equipment in here to pack flour in barrels.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: Like those.
ALEX.: Yes.
MCNEEL: And they weighed 300 pounds. This is where they backed
their wagons up to this door . . . because it came up
about level with the wagon bed, . . . they didn't have to
lift the barrels.
ALEX.: Yes. Sort of roll it off on its edge.
MCNEEL: Uh huh. Uh huh. But this was a double roll mill . . .
flour mill . . . they . . . these are the two flour rolls
. . . there is two sets of them . . . here to make wheat
flour. This is the stones . . . ah the corn mill stones
and buckwheat flour.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: . . . that they made the buckwheat and corn mill with.
This up here was the sifter for the . . . where the
buckwheat was carried up with belts with buckets on it
. . . carried it up and the sifter was around 'em and turn
up there.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: And then it came out down in this little hopper
here . . . and . . . of course, that slides in there to
shut it off if you want to . . . But this is what they
scooped it up with . . .
ALEX.: Oh yeah.
MCNEEL: . . . put it in the sack . . . and they had their hand
hold cut out in it . . . that was the scoop that they used
. . .
ALEX.: Now . . . ah . . . who operated this mill?
MCNEEL: My grandfather originally, and then my father.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: Here's a little bit of interest . . . The Greenbrier
Valley Fair, . . . which is now the state fair . . . Can
you read the date? 1895.
ALEX: 1895. It's August 27, 28, and 28, 1895. . . and 30, 95.
MCNEEL: Look at . . . look what their hogs looked like. All fat
. . . all lard
*: All lard.
*: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: They made a lot of it . . . had to use a lot of it . . .
*: Yes, sir. But those were advertisements of the fair.
Of course. . . that gives a cure for something.
ALEX: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: An advertisement that was posted upon the wall . . . and
some people have taken some of them off. Some of the
older ones . . . they have soaked 'em loose and took 'em
off the wall.
ALEX: Says don't miss the 19, and ah . . . don't miss the 1893
Industrial Exposition Fair in Lewisburg . . . was held at
August the 29th through September the 1st . . . a World
Fairs in itself.
ALEX: That's of interest to me.
MCNEEL: . . . one of the hoppers that they poured the wheat
in . . . if they brought it in here, why they poured it in
and the belt with the buckets on it . . . here is part of
. . . here's one of the belts . . . here’s one has ten buckets
riveted to the belt . . . it went around pulleys . . .
that carried the wheat up to the screen . . . originally
that was the first screen that went through right there
. . . a little shaker screen and then it went upon the
third floor and it was cleaned again.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: And then came back down through the rollers . . . then
went clear back to the third floor again . . . to go
through the sifter that sifted the bran . . . that
separated the brans and the midlings . . . and the two
grades of flour.
ALEX.: I forget did you say nidlings or midlings?
MCNEEL: Midlings.
ALEX.: Midlings.
MCNEEL: Uh huh.
ALEX.: Midlings are about a middle grade?
MCNEEL: Midlings were feed. They . . . that was . . . the bran
was the outside of the wheat . . .
ALEX.: Sort of chaft . . .
MCNEEL: The hull . . .
ALEX.: The husk . . . the hull . . .
MCNEEL: The hull could be the proper name for it . . . Then the
midlings were . . . that was crushed up, and it made a
little better feed than the bran.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: Then it was sifted out and there were two grades of flour
. . . Number 1 and number 2 grades of flour came out
. . . the flour came down in this hopper here . . . was
where the loose flour came in . . . down in there and they
dipped it out with a scoop . . . . then this . . . You see
the rollers that packed the flour in the barrels . . . You
just set the barrels in there, and that thing raised up and
down at the bottom of the barrel. Why it would go down
and turned as the flour went in and packed it in the
barrel . . .
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: And that raised up as the barrel filled up . .. the wooden
Shafts . . .
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: . . . and clogs on the top of 'em . . . and that whole
thing raised up as the barrel filled up.
ALEX.: Now most of the records on this mill you say are at WVU?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: On the financial operations . . .
MCNEEL: The old account . . . the old account books and so forth
are up there.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: It originally had a . . . The turbine was driven by a
double turbine originally . . . and that took so
much water . . . And the water for this mill came from one
of the springs . . . and then in later years we put the
over shot wheel unit.
MCNEEL: We can go up on the second floor if you want to. These
. . . that was part of the jack that lifted the rocks
. . . you know they had to sharpen the stones . . . these
big mill stones.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: . . . They had to cut groves in 'em and that was an art in
itself . . . They had a millwright come twice a year and
sharpen the stones . . . but this was part of the jack
that . . . the post set here up here . . . This big post
and then it came out over . . . an arm out over here. And
this hooked on, and they've disappeared . . . Two hooks
that hooked on to the stone . . . Then you jacked it up
with those through those threads.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: Lifted the stone up and brought it over here . . . and
laid it down . . . turned it upside down and laid it down,
and they sharpened it . . . Then they picked it back up,
and they brought it over and set it on . . . And that was
the level they used; . . . it had to be perfectly level.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: And that's the level they used to level the stones
with . . .
ALEX.: It's quite interesting.
MCNEEL: You couldn't . . . you see the bottom stone was set solid,
but the top stone hangs up there.
MCNEEL: And you could adjust it up and down.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: And if you got it a little too close, and it burned the
corn . . . well you could smell it . . . You'd see the
miller run to the . . . raised the stone up a little bit
. . . start burning a little bit . . . You could smell it
all over the mill.
ALEX.: It slid down from the second floor to this . . .
MCNEEL: No, sir. You just put it into this hopper.
ALEX.: Oh yeah.
MCNEEL: You just poured it in there . . . sacks or half bushel.
The miller would stand around there when he was grinding
. . . he'd feel the texture with his hands . . . and then
he would smell it . . . I remember seeing him do that,. . . and then he would rub it between his fingers . . .
see what texture he was getting . . . whether it was going
to be too coarse or not . . .
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: Straight on out. You might run into a rat up there . . .
ALEX.: I think we just lost the two women. (Laughs)
MCNEEL: That was another one of the wheat cleaners there, . . . and
these were sifters over here too . . . You see that was
covered with fine silk . . . those sifters.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: That was one of the reasons . . . It was right at the
beginning of World War II, . . . and the silk came from
Japan . . . And they couldn't get it, and that was one of
the reasons the mill went out of use.
ALEX.: I'll declare.
MCNEEL: A thing that I like to . . . I mean it has always sort of
been an ingenious invention to me . . . the . . . this
rope went up to the third floor . . . and the sacks . . .
the wagon would back in down there . . . and the sacks
they could pull it up . . . it run with the mill . . .
this shaft is . . . this end of it is loose over here. . . would raise up . . . This pulley run all the time.
And that one . . . there was a rope that hooked on to it
upstairs . . . pulled that up and tightened that belt
. . . and would run this wrench there. To pull your sacks
up on the third floor or to this floor either one. And
that's always been sort of an ingenious thing to me that
they invented a thing like that . . .
ALEX.: Saved a lot of lifting didn't it?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: It sure did.
MCNEEL: And we still use it . . . we use it to store grain in.
And I put a little electric motor in here and this V belt
running up here. We still fill our grain up with that.
ALEX.: Oh yeah.
MCNEEL: And the storage bins . . . I think one of them is dated
. . . 1898 I believe is the date on it . . . and it had
the man's name . . . uh . . . initials on there . . .
whose grain it was.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: . . . Of course we just keep it for feed; . . .
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: . . . oats and so forth . . . it's pretty well empty right
now . . . we ground up all the feed and put it out this
winter . . . we'll fill it back up if we raise enough to
do it.
ALEX.: You thrash your own?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Have you your own thrasher?
MCNEEL: We have a combine . . . a self-propelled combine.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: That's a corn sheller that they used to shell corn.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: . . . shifter that really separated the flour.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: This is where the real expensive . . . these drawers went
in . . . it had real expensive silk on it . . . they fit
in there like that.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: Then . . . as I say that was the main reason that the mill
shut down . . . because they couldn't get the silk . . .
ALEX.: But it operated until '42?
MCNEEL: '42. Yes, sir.
ALEX.: 1942. It's still a beautiful location.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Spring water still available?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. The flood in 1935 washed the mill ____ out
. . . and it never was repaired very good . . . then of
course since then nothing has been done to it . . . it'll
all have to be done all over again.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: That's the top of the over shot wheel. You can see right down
through that window.
ALEX.: Where is that spring located?
MCNEEL: Oh it's 3/4 of a mile on up the hollow.
ALEX.: But they had a race way to it . . . built down.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: That's a long race way.
MCNEEL: It is. Part of it was natural . . . now part of it was
just a natural stream bed . . . and they put a dam in and
brought in over into the race . . . the race doesn't go
that far up.
ALEX.: I see.
MCNEEL: It's a little over a quarter of a mile I guess.
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: The race way is . . .
ALEX.: That's a big wheel.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: A big mill . . .
MCNEEL: Then there was ____ up here. We've got this door shut.
It's so dark up here you can't see . . . Now this was the
rope that pulled the sacks up, . . . and there was . . .
this little rope here comes down . .. the rats keep eating
it off . . . The man that was operating the wrench down
there . . . stood right here and just pulled down on that
rope and that raised . .. tightened that belt down there
. . .
ALEX.: . . . started to bring all the grain out.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. And as I say we still use that . . . We fill
these bins up with wheat and oats . . . corn and so forth.
The pigeons have gotten in here so bad since the windows
have all gotten broke out . . . but . . . the old original
mill as I told you over there was just corn rocks, (?)* and
then it had an up and down saw mill connected with it . ..
And it came from this little stream that run down over
there . . . The race to the original mill came right
around the hill there from on up in this other stream.
ALEX.: Coming down over that limestone over on the other side.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: Now about when was this established . . . I guess that
might be in some of Price's works wouldn't it?
MCNEEL: It would be . . . I can't give you dates.
ALEX.: Yes. Built by your grandfather?
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. The original mill didn't belong to
my grandfather. It belonged to a family of Matthews. The
original one.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: That owned this property at that time. The Matthews were,
. . . I'm sure you've heard of the old Federal Judge
George McClintock used to sit on the bench
in Charleston . . . Federal judge . . .
ALEX.: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: Well it was his grandfather that had it originally.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: But I thought maybe you might be interested . . .
ALEX.: Oh yes I am! Very definitely. This is a great part of
the business history right here.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
*: It's one of the mills that supplied part of the valley in
here.
MCNEEL: I can remember when I was a kid people would come in
covered wagons. I can still remember the wagons coming,. . . and they would spend the night. In fact in that
old log barn up where . . . up on the hill where I lived
. . . there were two stalls they called the mill stable
. . . that the people who stayed overnight to get their
grinding done kept there horses in, . . . and we had a room
up in the house . . . in our home up there that they spent
the night in.
ALEX.: Oh yeah.
MCNEEL: We'd . . . my mother fed . . . and my grandmothers fed an
awful lot of people there who have come to the mill, . . .
and that was part of the service. They got patronizing this
mill. Was a place to spend the night if they were going to
stay overnight.
END SIDE ONE OF TAPE.
SIDE TWO--Richard MCNEEL
MCNEEL: . . . and he'd see me lugging empty bags down there and
hook them on to this rope; and he'd tighten that belt down
there just enough so that the weight of 'em would pull
them down . .. And we had finished unloading the load he
thought the thing . . . where he was standing back there
. . . He just ran up and grabbed the rope, . . . and nobody
had a hold of this end to tighten it up . . . He just went
down in the wagon bed like that . . . all the way from
____. Bang! And as it happened he hit on his feet . . .
it didn't hurt him a bit. (Laughs)
ALEX.: It was already ____.
MCNEEL: It was completely released. You all go back towards the
window and I'll close these doors.
ALEX.: Alright. Alright, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: This little ingenious thing back here they had . . .
ALEX: Be careful of these holes, please.
MCNEEL: Now this is completely homemade . . . it's an auger,
that carried the flour over . . . it's completely homemade
. . . all made out of wood . . . and as that turned why it
carried the flour over . . .
ALEX.: Would you mind moving over so that we could see.It's a long wooden cylinder . . . sort of hex shaped with
wooden blades carved out on it . . . You see there's one
broken off.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: They are made round down at the bottom and just drove in
a round hole there.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: We have . . . They have, . . . That's part of the screen
. . . That had silk on it too . . . Down on the basement
of the mill were the main drive cogs that operated the
mill . . . It was a wooden cog too . . . and here are
some with the teeth out . . . You see those? . . . there
were two cogs . . . and they ran together like that. . .
ALEX.: Huh. Wooden cogs.
MCNEEL: Wooden cogs. And that's some of the teeth out of it
there . . . cut oblong and drove down in this big wheel
. . .
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: And they run together . . . that was part of the main
drive of the mill . . .
ALEX.: Oh yeah . . . that's interesting too.
MCNEEL: From down there in Monroe County There has been a millwright that has been up here and
looked at it twice but I haven't been able to get him
interested yet. He wants to come up and rework it . . .
of course the flour rolls there are beyond repair now
. . . they won't be able to use them again because the
rolls are . . . they were . . . fitted . . . fitted fine
together you know to crush the flour, . . . and they are
rusted now and pitted till they would never be able to use
them . . . I'm not particularly interested in making flour. . . I'd like to get the corn rocks and the buckwheat
part of it in operation.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: But I've never got him interested enough to come. He has
remodeled three or four mills since he looked at this one
the first time . . .
ALEX.: What's his name?
MCNEEL: *Campbell.
ALEX.: *Campbell. *Campbell is an old name in Monroe County.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
ALEX.: They're in the Sweet Springs district . Those people . . . there are some
over in
the Red Salt Sulphur district.
MCNEEL: Uh huh. He lives in Union . . . I think himself.
ALEX.: Uh huh. Yeah.
MCNEEL: If you have been to the State Fair then you have seen him
because he has the old steam engine and the little corn;
. . . that makes corn mill at the fair.
ALEX.: We've seen him there . . .
MCNEEL: He has been there for several years.
ALEX.: We've seen him . . . I wonder if he goes over to the
. . . I doubt it but over Ripley to their . . .
MCNEEL: I don't know whether he does or not . . .
ALEX.: . . . where they have the arts and crafts fair . . . in
July . . .
MCNEEL: Yes I know they do . . . Of course his steam engine is
pretty big . . . I don't know if he would go that far with
it or not . . . but I guess he could . . . if he can take
it to the State Fair from Union he could go . . .
ALEX.: Go anyplace.
MCNEEL: . . . to Ripley . . . sure.
ALEX: Over in Jackson County.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Yes I have been over to the craft fair over at
Ripley.
ALEX: A very interesting operation . . . Those storage bins
bring back a lot of memories for me of course . . .
MCNEEL: Yes, sir.
MCNEEL: And the . . .
MCNEEL: . . . so long I don't like to sell it to anybody.
ALEX.: You're right.
MCNEEL: I'd like to keep it but I would like to get it in
operation again.
ALEX.: Uh huh.
MCNEEL: Ah . . . it would be of interest to a lot of people if it
were opened and could operate even the corn rocks . . .
and the buckwheat flour. Sell a little maple syrup and
that sort of thing on the side.
ALEX.: Oh yes. And some of that could be made local even . . .
MCNEEL: That's right . . . it sure could.
ALEX.: Tap a tree . . . tap a tree and make it local.
MCNEEL: This is where I was raised up in that old big house there
. . .
ALEX: Right here on the point.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
(SKIP)
MCNEEL: Warren Lumber Company.
ALEX.: This house is?
MCNEEL: Yes. When . . . the owner . . . manager of Warren
Lumber Company built that house for a family of Wallace's
that lived there . . . He sawed all the lumber for that
house from timber he cut out on Cranberry, . . . and
brought in here and and sawed . . . And built that house
for them.
ALEX.: That's a huge house!
MCNEEL: Yes it is. Three full stories in it . . . it's . . . and
almost a full basement under it.
ALEX.: Yeah.
MCNEEL: But . . . Preston Warren the owner of Warren Lumber
Company built . . .
ALEX.: How is that spelled?
MCNEEL: W-A-R-R-E-N.
ALEX.: W-A-R-R-E-N.
MCNEEL: Warren Lumber Company. They're the same people . . . they
left here and moved to Raywoods . . . you asked about Raywoods . . . they had the mill . . . and that is where
they went . . . Mr. Warren had a bad accident and killed
an old man when they were working at Raywood with his
automobile. It prayed on his mind 'till he lost his
health completely and died from . . .
ALEX.: Huh.
MCNEEL: And the lumber company and the mill just set up there and
rotted down . . .
ALEX.: Huh.
MCNEEL: . . . and the engines . . . and everything set right there
and rusted . . .
ALEX.: Huh. That's too bad.
MCNEEL: But that was the cause of it . . . I knew him real well
. . .
ALEX.: Approximately what year? You say you . . .
MCNEEL: Well . . . now
ALEX.: Roughly . . .
ALEX: 40's.
MCNEEL: No.
ALEX: 30's.
MCNEEL: No . . . early thirties.
ALEX.: The early 30's . . . near the early 30's.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir . . . back here after he lost his
health . . . He and his WIFE and daughter came back here
. . . He died in that house over there . . . but he had
lost everything . . . he didn't have anything!
ALEX.: That's a tragedy.
MCNEEL: Yes, sir. Things like that are. . .
WIFE: Who lives in the home?
MCNEEL: Nobody. It's vacant . . . My brother is down at Denmar
in the hospital . . . in the State Hospital down there
. . . not able to walk . . . yet he won't even let me put
anyone in the house . . .
ALEX.: Younger or older?
MCNEEL: Well he is five years older than I am.
ALEX.: Five years older than you are.
MCNEEL: And the house has been vacant 14 or 15 years . . . most of
his furniture still . . . I took . . . I was afraid
somebody would break in . . . we took part of the valuable
. . . I mean the old old valuable furniture out . . . but
a good deal of his furniture is still in it . . .
(SKIP)
ALEX.: . . . for the most part it operated by water?
MCNEEL: Water. Yes, sir.
END OF TAPE.