Fred Burns----Burns Trucking Company
(A partial transcript) (Interview by Dr. Robert P. Alexander and Fred Burns
General Manager)
ALEX: 1949
BURNS: One tractor pulled the trailers for the lumber companies that used to
be in this area-Republic Lumber Company.
ALEX: Where is Republic located?
BURNS: They were in Uniontown Pennsylvania. But they have been our of
business for several years.
ALEX: What did they have?
BURNS: They had a mill up above Campbelltown. They stored----.
ALEX: About 1949. Did you start at this location?
BURNS: No, we had a small lot downtown. We practically started out just
operating out of his home. Just had the one tractor. Then as he grew he rented
a small lot just up the street from his house on 3rd Avenue. He
parked the trucks there, and he just kept adding. In 1960, I guess was a big
growth period. He just kept adding more operating cars. He had the authority
to operate in 23 states.
ALEX: That’s quite an operation!
BURNS: Operated primarily on forest products out of West Virginia. On back
hauls chemical and different materials back into West Virginia Fertilizer back.
ALEX: Where do you haul fertilizer from usually?
BURNS: Baltimore and Richmond.
ALEX: Well uh. Now you have been operating since 1949. The Republic is no
longer in operation here in West Virginia. Now there is a mill in Campbelltown.
BURNS: A small mill up there. It’s not active right now.
ALEX: Yeah. You are a native of Pocahontas County, I guess?
BURNS: Yes.
ALEX: How many trailers do you have now?
BURNS: I just bought license for 156 this week.
ALEX: One hundred fifty six—power?
BURNS: Thirty-five tractors, 9 owner operators that have their own tractors,
15 dump trucks to haul road building material for construction workers and
asphalt.
ALEX: I noticed the BURNS trucks in our area Huntington on Interstate 64.
BURNS: Yeah. We did some work out there. Had an offer from R. H.
BURNS
from Hillsboro. Had a contract with the company. He retired about four years
ago.
ALEX: When did he start his company?
BURNS: He’s been in the trucking business all his life. Major construction
in the “50’s. I believe about ’72 he retired and sold out.
ALEX: Sold out in ’72. Someone told me to Anderson Blackrock.
BURNS: No, Anderson Paving.
ALEX: Well, you show a lot of growth. Most of it started in the 60’s.
BURNS: Right, we started in the early ‘60’s.
ALEX: You did not mention rail, but I have noticed a lot of rails on the
lot.
BURNS: Yes, there’s a lot of fencing.
ALEX: A lot of fencing rails.
BURNS: Last year 17,000 tons.
ALEX: Seventeen thousand tons. How many more feet of lumber would you pull
out: Does most of the lumber come out of Pocahontas or Richwood, too?
BURNS: Richwood, Greenbrier, 60% Randolph.
ALEX: What mills do you get it out up there?
BURNS: Wilson Lumber Company, ---Lumber Company, Benson Lumber Company and
Pioneer Lumber Company.
ALEX: I know the Benson family. Had a son that attended Marshall for a
while. I don’t know if he finished or not, but I remember he was there. What
are some of the companies in Pocahontas County do you pull for?
BURNS: Interstate Lumber Company. Fencing for ---at Bartow. Actually, we
originally have more shipment out of Pocahontas County. But, then again, most
of it originates in Randolph, Greenbrier, Nicholas. We pick up a lot in
Charleston, Mingo County-Gilbert.
ALEX: I noticed on this Scenic Highway job Pocahontas Construction. Is
that operating out of Pocahontas County?
BURNS: Yes. They have a pouring black top plant here in Pocahontas. We do
our road building. Fifteen trucks haul it.
ALEX: Are they a recent, a new company?
BURNS: Yes. They have been here four or five years.
ALEX: Who is the owner of that company?
BURNS: Tom McGee.
ALEX: I might want to talk with him, too. You might be one of the larger
trucking companies in West Virginia:
BURNS: Probably, one of the larger family—owned corporations. Of course,
Smith Transfer is located in Stanton, Virginia. They have a large operation.
ALEX: They have a big terminal near Belle. We at Marshall have a
Department of Transportation dealing with land, air and water ways. We are
training operators in that area. In terms of management in that area. So,
that’s a kind of recent development. I think a school near us would probably be
University of Tennessee. The University of Indiana has a program. But we saw a
need for a program in the area.
BURNS: University of Kentucky has a transportation program, too.
ALEX: I am not certain. If they do it may be a rather recent. We are
offering an undergraduate degree as well as a graduate degree. We have expanded
our curriculum tremendously. What would be your volume of business dollar
wise? Gross?
BURNS: Some where around a million and a half.
ALEX: A million and a half a year. You employ a good many men, I guess?
BURNS: Fifty.
ALEX: Fifty men. That’s a fair payroll, county this size.
BURNS: Four hundred forty thousand.
ALEX: Most of these men are local then?
BURNS: Yes.
ALEX: That is providing a kind of economic impetus stimulation in the area.
BURNS: Yeah, most people don’t realize it, though. Four hundred fifty
thousand into payroll.
ALEX: Well, when you look at the size of the county, even though it is a
large county, the economic activity that’s quite a payroll. It may be one of
the larger payrolls in the county.
BURNS: Yeah, there are only 8,300 people in this county.
ALEX: How many acres do you have here? Looks like you have three or four.
BURNS: Well, as total 17 acres. This Foodland store is ours leased or
private owned and all this bottom is a part.
ALEX: About 17 acres.
BURNS: About 6 is transportation.
ALEX: When did you build this building?
BURNS: 1959.
ALEX: 1959. Build just before the growth period. When did you finish at
Morgantown?
BURNS: 1958.
ALEX: You finished at Morgantown about the same time I finished a
Marshall. I finished at Marshall in’57.
BURNS: Yeah, I finished in ’58 and spent a little time with Uncle Sam.
Came back and I’ve been here ever since.
ALEX: I spent that time with Uncle Sam before I graduated, Korea, about 3 ½
years. Well, that’s the kind of thing I wanted to get at—payroll, gross, how
much power you had when you were founded. What do you see as your prospects for
continued growth?
BURNS: I look forward for increases in profit about 10% a year.
ALEX: That’s steady.
BURNS: We have gotten into transportation recently. Westvaco, a paper
company. We’re transporting their chips out of West Virginia. We have 64
trailers pulling those.
ALEX: They have a pulp yard at Durbin, don’t they?
BURNS: Yes.
ALEX: Do you transport any of that or does it go out by rail?
BURNS: No, that goes out by rail.---Greenbrier County they have their own
chipping operation. Where they chips trees in the wood shed. They let in their
trailers.
ALEX: That’s done so they are ready for the cooker when it gets there. I
have been down there for that operation. I was trying to think yesterday. I
was offered a job as a personnel manager when Joe Clapper went to the
Worthington-Stuebaker Corporation in New York. I remember now, Nellis Coxes
was the top dog down there. That was in Covington. I went over there in the
winter. It was a terrible winter. The Roanoke Airport was closed and I had to
ride the train. We hit a car around Montgomery. Matter of fact, the car lodged
under the car I was riding in, the fourth car back in the train. And they had
to get a crew to pull the car out. We finally got in Covington at 3:30 in the
morning. We were due around eleven at night. They had the train to stop in
Covington and let me off. Normally, the train stopped at Clifton Forge.
Since, West Virginia Pulp was a good customer of C & O, when they had special
people coming in they stopped the train and let me off. They had a driver
standing by there all that time. Boy, that fellow had been waiting four to five
hours—waiting for me to get off that train for that interview. That would be a
pretty good additional increase.
BURNS: Yes.
ALEX¨ There is a big operation.
BURNS: Yes, I was over there yesterday all morning. We have some big plans
for the future.
ALEX: They are a fine operation. What about the road-build business? How
say you have how many dumps?
BURNS: Fifteen.
ALEX: Just be keeping them busy ?
BURNS: Yes, it has been continuous work. Now most of this work is
maintenance where they resurface different roads in the area. Now, we have over
80,000 tons of material for the summer. Of course, it is seasonal. We can only
do it when we have good weather. We generally get started in April and go to
November.
ALEX: Where is your father?
BURNS: He was here a few minutes ago. He must have gone to his farm. He
has a large farm at Clover Lick.
ALEX: I have to go up there and interview some people up there. A fellow
by the name of John Coyner. Want to talk with him. He is familiar with the
lumber industry. I am trying to put together a business history. It is a
pretty big task. When, I came over here everybody said, “ What’s in Pocahontas
County”? I said it would be a pretty easy county to work, but it’s rough. We
were out yesterday and we did not get back until 11:00 P. M. We drove over
100 miles.
BURNS: Have you been to Frank yet?
ALEX. I am going up there Friday. I was there yesterday but I made an
appointment to go back.
BURNS: How about Hanover Shoe Company?
ALEX: No, I have not been over to Hanover. I have got to get over
there. I think the man’s name is Sharp.
BURNS: Yes, Sharp.
ALEX: I have been concentrating on the old timers when I started this
project last year. I have three more names. Three of them have died since last
year that I did not get to interview, so I am working with them first. Then, I
am working with the on-going concerns. I am dealing with the old timers who
have worked in the lumber camps and sawmill operations during the time it was in
its Heyday in Pocahontas County. I cannot ignore ever motel and small
business-- The Cass store. Mrs Powell, I guess one of the operators and
managers in that area. They have run the Inn for years and years. The time I
cover it all it is going to be quite a project.
BURNS: I have a picture of an old sawmill. My father-in-law was in the
lumber business.
ALEX: Where would that be?
BURNS: Well, he died five years ago. The picture was not identified.
Some of the people say it was up at Campbelltown or at the foot of Woodrow
mountain Some of the people say it was at Stoney Bottom. I know he had a mill
at both locations. It looks like the one at Woodrow and the landscape around
it.
ALEX: That curve in the road. There’s a pile of saw dust.
BURNS: Yes.
ALEX: I wonder how a man would go about finding out where the smaller
mills operated? I have been talking about the big band mills. I have talked to
the old timers. Like last night I talked to Cecil Houchins and he said there
was a pretty good size mill down at Nottingham. I see a lot of saw dust piled
around. You don’t know how long they’ve operated?
BURNS: I don’t know if any of the Blackhurst books would have any
information or not.
ALEX: You can gleam a good bit of it out. It is very difficult. I have
tried to put together a list of these small mills.
BURNS: Yeah, most of these small mills just hit one spot and move out,
maybe 50 miles to another spot.
ALEX: Yeah, they may not cut more than 100 acres.
BURNS: Back then the transportation problem was very serious. They had
to be right where they could get to roads to get the materials in and lumber
out.
ALEX: You have a brother Tom?
BURNS: Yes, and anther named Larry.
ALEX: What is your title?
BURNS: Vice President.
ALEX: Your Father is still President?
BURNS: Yes, I am general manager.
ALEX: Your brother?
BURNS: Tom takes care of all the licenses and taxes of the vehicles.
All of the safety.
ALEX: Boy the has a job with OSHA, DOT and—
BURNS: Yes, Of Course, he has DOT and ICC, too. It is quite a job in
licensing vehicles. We operate in 32 states and have authority in 22 states.
We go through 32 different states, so we have to licensed in every state we go
through. It takes a lot of work to keep up with all the miles and gallons of
fuel we use in each of the 32 states.
ALEX: I remember, he was blond headed. That’ll make him gray headed.
BURNS: It sure will! Now, Larry is maintenance supervisor. He takes care
of all the maintenance problems.
ALEX: Is he your brother?
BURNS: Yeah.
ALEX: Is he—there is another man downstairs.
BURNS: Yeah, Johnny Nelson.
ALEX: Yeah, Johnny Nelson.
BURNS: Larry’s probably down---. We have another shop downtown.
ALEX: So, there’s three brothers.
BURNS: Right.
ALEX: What about office staff including those three and Nelson. You have a
woman?
BURNS: Right. That’s Tom’s wife. She does all the bookkeeping.
ALEX: So, you have four or five employed in the office operation. Does
your father spend much time in the business now?
BURNS: Oh, he’s here maybe 40% of the time. We started out on a farm as a
hobby. It’s got to be quite a business last couple years. He has 1,200 acres.
It takes a lot of time to check it. He has about 300 head of cattle.
ALEX: I guess good beef brings a good piece of change today ever though the
market is down.
BURNS: Well he’s a director at the First National Bank, he spends some time
down there. Keeps him busy. A year ago he was on the County Commission.
President of the County Court. That took a lot of his time.
ALEX: What do you see is the growth in Pocahontas County: Do you think
Pocahontas has a future in economical growth?
BURNS: No, the government owns too much of the land area.
ALEX: They own more than half of it.
BURNS: Seventy-three percent, Federal and State. That doesn’t leave a
whole lot of room for expansion.
ALEX: So-called public land.
BURNS: That’s right. I don’t know what’ll happen to Snowshoe tourism. It
will probable increase.
ALEX: There was an economical study made of some proposal that damming of
the dead waters would create more water supply. Might be of more economic
stimulation.
BURNS: Well, if that’s what the Corp of Engineers wants to do. Their last
proposal would help the situation if the type of damming where they could have
recreation in the summer time. But, it’s going to be a flush box for the
Kanawha valley basin. I’m very concerned with flood control because we’ve been
flooded here about seven times in the last ten years. In 1967, we had 4 1/ 2
feet of water in the office area and $100,000 worth of damage.
ALEX: Well, that wouldn’t help you there. Where would the work of the
Greenbrier be?
BURNS: Well, they’re talking about putting a dam just north of Marlinton
and a dam up in the area of Clover Lick. It they would do that, raise the river
and build some dikes have been limiting the flood problem.
ALEX: Along the town?
BURNS: It would be a lot cheaper----.
ALEX: Well, they like to build dams.
BURNS: They like to study it for ten years.
ALEX: They do that out of the Huntington office, don’t they?
BURNS: Yes.
ALEX: I know a lot of those fellows down there. As a matter of fact, I’ve
gone down there and taught courses for them.
BURNS: Yes, They’ve just recently spent $300,000 on a study. That $300,000
would have done a lot of dredging in the Greenbrier River
ALEX: Sure would have.
BURNS: We get a lot of useless things. They don’t hurt us very much, but
they’ll put us out of business in 24 hours. Them you have to pick everything up
and move out.
ALEX: Most of it’s in the spring when the snow melts?
BURNS: In the spring or mid-winter. “67 was the worst winter we’ve had.
They claimed it was a 100 year flood. It was a disaster without a doubt.
ALEX: Flooded out the town, too, didn’t it?
BURNS: Yes. We had a lot of damage.
ALEX: It’s hard to believe that Greenbrier will roll out of there but it
will roll out, won’t it?
BURNS: It sure did in ’67.
ALEX: Well, you don’t see a lot of economic growth?
BURNS: No. I don’t see any decline in it, either. I think it’s holding
pretty stable. Of course, the people who dealt with the tannery went out in ’71
and that was the end of Marlinton. It’ll dry up and blow away. We’ve got
business cut out, and we’ve got Hanover back and they’re taking up the slack.
ALEX: Are they operating down below the Pocahontas Times around the corner
there?
BURNS: They have two operations. One there and one where the old tannery
was.
ALEX: I saw that operation down there. I sort of glanced in. They were
making shoes down there. I didn’t go up to the other. I may hit that today.
I plan to work in the Marlinton area today.
BURNS: They have active plans to build a new plant here. They ought to get
that one finished pretty soon.
ALEX: Well, I guess the forest service people employ a good number of
people.
BURNS: I don’t know just how many people they have working now. They
haven’t been employing as many as they did in the past, because of the clear
cutting controversy they’ve laid a lot of people off and transferred a lot out
of this area.
ALEX: The figures I have shows that the federal government in forest areas
is contributing less in the last five years and it’s quite a sharp decline.
Whereas, I see this state has spent a tremendous, a larger amount of money,
particularly in the hatchery area and so on. I don’t know what to contribute
that to, I suspect part of it may be from the $3 trout fishing license-stamp.
Some of these hatcheries are just hanging on and had a great deal of increased
activity, but I noticed, too, in the figures I’ve been able to collect in
Charleston, that the—one figure that I don’t have is the State Road
Commission. I’ll get that.
They should have a pretty good payroll and large offices, I understand.
But, welfare has increased tremendously. There are a number of dollars in state
spending here. These are
some of the things I’m going to put together.
BURNS: Sometimes, I think this welfare contribution hurts the economy more
than it helps it.
ALEX: I think it does.
BURNS: They could be working with something to do.
ALEX: They won’t and you may have a steady movement toward that kind of
philosophy that somebody is getting it for nothing and I will too, rather than
I’m too proud to take it. And you know that the thing I think somehow or another
someone I don’t know who, may be Underwood and I am not campaigning for
Underwood but talk about the aid to dependent fathers they make them work and
to get the aid and I don’t think that was such a bad idea. I believe somebody
can find a job.
BURNS: Yeah, We have for the last six months been trying to find a
custodian to clean the building and our office and it wouldn’t be a bad job and
I know probably fifty people on welfare or unemployment who could take that job,
but they will not take it.
ALEX: Even though you are paying the minimum wage.
BURNS: Right, even if you go above the minimum wage with the benefits and
everything they have, they say they are foolish to get off of welfare or
unemployment and take a job. This is not right.
ALEX: No, it is costing you money. Do you pull cattle out west:
BURNS: Yes, we have gone as far west as Los Angeles.
ALEX: I was talking to Buckley, Bill Buckley down here and he told me that
some outfit out of the mid-west came in here and buys yearlings and takes them
back to graze them and then takes them to a feedlot.
BURNS: Yeah, we haul a lot out of South Charleston to Ohio to a feeder lot
and we haul some to Ft. Wayne, Ind. Last year we took a load from London Farms
down near Lewisburg to Los Angeles. We loaded them on a Saturday afternoon to
Los Angeles and the truck was back in Marlinton the next Friday afternoon.
ALEX: That is a long haul for cattle.
BURNS: It sure is. They stopped three times and let them rest for six
hours and water and feed with two drivers.
End of tape.