Perspectives of African American Teachers in West Virginia Perspectives of African American Teachers in West Virginia Eren Niederhoffer Traditional histories of the African American experience follow a predictable timeline that focuses on legal progress. Not only does this perspective create the false impression that civil rights progress has been completely achieved, it also overlooks an important lesson in the history of civil rights in America—the power used by the local citizens. The purpose of this paper to investigate the experiences of African American teachers West Virginia. The paper will discuss interracial interactions on various levels between blacks and whites before and during the 1950s through the life stories of several female African-American schoolteachers, mainly those in the West Virginia part of Appalachia. These oral histories reveal that there were both positive and negative interactions between the whites and blacks. To begin with, why focus on Appalachia? When many think of Appalachians, they are presented as poor and white. These negative stereotypes of “poor white folks from the hollow, chewing tobacco and committing incest—still abound in television, literature, and even education.”1 But the reality is something completely different, according to Dr. Ancella Bickley who recorded dozens of interviews with black Appalachians. The reality of Appalachia is strikingly in opposition to the stereotype. Instead of a homogenous “isolated people”, Appalachians are in fact a diverse group—originating in early mixtures of Native American peoples (including the Cherokee, Shawnee, and Iroquois Nations), African Americans, and Celtic Europeans. Major immigrations of Southern Blacks, Hungarians, Germans, and Belgians (to name a few) came later, and were ‘Appalachianized’. Sprinkled throughout the region are Lebanese and Eastern European Jewish immigrants.2 But in treating a portion of our population like this, what exactly have been the historic consequences of our actions? “By treating Appalachians as somehow peculiar and separate from the rest of the country, American history has been able to overlook the story of those who supplied the timber and coal for the development of the United States.”3 Now, why focus on the viewpoints of African-American women? “Workers in timbering and mining died by the hundreds of thousands to fuel American expansion. Women were often the glue that held families together after the death of the breadwinner.”4 Women would often play an important role in keeping the mining community together and later, in parts of West Virginia that had to do with schools, would be crucial in allowing for progress in education. An African-American woman who started out in a coal-mining community and ended up playing a major role for blacks across the country was Memphis Tennessee Garrison (1890-1988). She actually had positive relationships with the white community during multiple times. “But when they weren’t sending Negroes anywhere to get educated, my white grandfather sent his…Negro daughters to a school….And when they went home, they had connections.”5 This is proof that there was in fact positive treatment of blacks by the whites in West Virginia in early 1900s. In 1926, at the age of 36, Memphis Tennessee Garrisson worked with the Superintendant of her county’s mines, a man named “Colonel” Edward O’Toole.6 In Ancella Bickley’s observation, Garrison’s attachment to the ‘Colonel’ is plain. She respected and admired the man, as a man. She developed a close working relationship with him that included a high level of trust. When the union started to organize in Gary, he called on Garrison to be his eyes and ears…Yet there is no evidence that she lost the respect or support of the black community as a result. Her motivation was to protect the interests of the community, and she perceived that the United Miner Workers of America was not able or willing, to speak to the needs of black miners. To use the memories of Memphis Tennessee Garrison herself, “I’d also settle disputes. I put down things that were starting that they didn’t want. In the mines the men worked side by side: white, foreign, Negro. The Negro would have a foreigner as his buddy. The foreigner would load on that side of the car, and the Negro would be over there. They did everything together; they’d sit down and eat together. But when they’d leave the mines, they’d go on their separate ways, and you didn’t see them together anymore. Well, sometimes there would arise differences that were a little beyond the boss men if a Negro was concerned. The Negro wouldn’t feel that he was getting a fair deal. So the Colonel would say to me sometimes, ‘I’m going to let you see what you can do with this situation.’ Well I did do. I knew everybody. I taught everybody’s children at some time, either in that first grade or later on, and I’d taught all of them. So, it worked out well”.7 Is it now possible for readers to agree on the importance of discussing the relationships of African-Americans and whites through the eyes of African-American schoolteachers? Looking at the viewpoint of Memphis Tennessee Garrison, by working as not only a schoolteacher but a community organizer as well, Garrison was able to be involved with her mining community of Gary quite a bit. It allowed her to help represent the blacks during times of difficulty and even help solve disputes between the different ethnic groups. As Garrison stated in her quotes, when outside the Gary coal mines the ethnic groups were isolated to a certain point, while inside the coal mines it did not matter what different ethnicity there was, everyone worked together, ate together, etc. Finally, there was the mutual respect between Memphis Tennessee Garrison and “Colonel” Edward O’Toole. His concern was more for the mine than for different ethnicity groups. This was shown by trying to get Garrison to peacefully resolve conflicts concerning the African-American miners rather than use intimidation or some other form of tough treatment. In the same regard, Garrison worked inside unions as the Colonel’s eyes and ears. While their interactions were seemingly more focused on the well-being of the mining community rather than solely being concerned for any individual group, the existence of their teamwork plus the fact that they worked together for the same goal so well suggests the point that African-Americans and whites were able to get along, despite what other people were saying. This paper will now delve into the viewpoints of female African-American schoolteachers in West Virginia as their positive and negative interactions with whites are explored. One West Virginian schoolteacher to discuss is Eliza Jane Dillard from Omar, West Virginia. Born March 28th, 1930, part of Eliza’s connection with whites and Native Americans involved her heritage. According to Eliza’s father, her grandfather was white, although Eliza never did have the chance to meet him, so it may not be confirmed. However, Eliza did meet her father’s mother, who ironically happened to be named Eliza Jane. Eliza Jane Dillard actually happened to be named after her grandmother. Still, according to Eliza, her father was the only one in her extended family who happened to have a white father. While the grandfather on Eliza’s mother’s side of the family “looked white, but he wasn’t.” Finally, the grandmother on Eliza’s mother’s side of the family was Native American. “Because I [Eliza’s father] saw her grandmother, her mother’s mother. And her grandfather-in fact, he came and he had the coal black hair, wavy hair, and the stature of an Indian.”8 As the information above states, Eliza’s family had a very mixed heritage. Because Eliza knew her grandparents, who were responsible for her mixed blood, it can be inferred that her mixed family was born out of love, rather than some other possibility that could end up being unpleasant. The existence of multiracial blood through family can be an example of how there were indeed positive relations between the different ethnics groups before the 1960s. However wonderful the proof of good relationships between whites, blacks, and Native Americans may have been in Eliza Jane Dillard’s example of her entire extended family, there are of course examples of difficulty between the different groups as well. A prime example that relates to Eliza’s role as a schoolteacher happens close to 1956-1957. At this time, Eliza was a schoolteacher at Clothier School (at that time a blacks-only school) where she would teach the first three grade levels. There was a formerly whites-only school nearby that was trying to integrate. The school had already integrated the first school grade, and was trying to integrate the rest of the grade-levels. The Board of Education did not want there to be two schools when they could have one integrated school, so they tried to have Clothier’s closed down and have the black students come to the white school. For that to work, the principal (no name mentioned) at the white school tried a strategy with the bus system. He basically had the bus driver to pick up all the black children and bring them to his school. That would assist in closing down Clothier. All except seventeen children from Clothier’s were taken. The remaining still stayed behind. Eliza Jane and another instructor who happened to be a “head teacher,” Lucille Watkins, taught the remaining students. Eliza taught eleven of them, Lucille taught the remaining six.9 While the integration of schools was difficult due to not everyone accepting it at once, a true problem in the system with whites and blacks occurred at Logan General Hospital, which was segregated before 1960. For the black women, there was a “sun porch” on the second floor where the babies were put right beside their mothers, but exposed to each other in the case of germs and whatever the others may have been carrying. At Guyan Valley Hospital, it was segregated as well, but with different circumstances. The black babies were put in the nursery with the other babies, but the black mothers were still put in a segregated ward. However, while there was only one black doctor there (Dr. Elliot), but the doctor who typically treated Eliza Jane was a white doctor, Dr. Deason. Strangely, the process of segregation was actually supposed to be kept a secret at the Logan Hospital. “They were put in a-, they, we (Eliza) weren’t supposed to know that we were treated differently, but we were” There is not a clear explanation for why the whites were not informed of how the blacks were treated, so we can draw our own conclusions, but this treatment in the hospital versus the fact that white doctors were willing to treat blacks in their hospitals, shows the variances in the interactions between whites and blacks.10 Moving on, Eliza speaks about her experiences growing up in the mining communities at Crystal Block. There, interactions took place between the black communities and the white communities, which were that because the ethnic groups congregated to their own kind. Eliza and several other kids from her community actually got along rather well with several of the children from the white community there, specifically those from two white families. While Eliza’s parents never let her spend the night at the white kids’ houses, the white kids were able to spend the nights at her house and her black friends. According to Eliza, the parents of the white kids had no objection at all. Also, while Eliza could not stay overnight at the white kids houses, she WAS allowed to come over to their houses and do stuff with them. The two white families were the Tarquintos and the Sir families. The relationships were positive enough to the point where there was almost never any name-calling between the communities. Outside the houses, both groups of children gladly played together without there being any trouble for the most part. One final note; as the children reached the age of maturity, Mary of the Tarquinto family ended up marrying one of the men from the Sir family.11 While there did happen to be flaws in the relationship between the two communities in Crystal Block, Eliza’s recounting of her childhood there goes to show the existence of positive relationships between children of different races during the time of segregation. Interestingly, in one of the integrated schools by the name of Stirrat, around the time of 1960, there were problems created by the blacks as well. There was a black boy who ended up causing trouble. “He just, he just had a lot of prejudice in him….beautiful little girl was out there and he loved to pull her hair.” Now normally that would seem like everything was purely and simply bullying, but it went a little further than that. “And there was an incident with the children. And one of the things that bothered me, it goes back to these children were taken out of the black school by their father and taken to Stirrat. And, uh, not just his children, but he took some other children.” But why would the man do that? And it [integration] was on a voluntary basis. It wasn’t, you know, compulsory. So in order to uh, get them integrated, the father decided well, he’d get ‘em and he came to the black school and took them out and took them up there. Well they were never given a fair or an equal chance. And this boy, when I went up there, was the son of the father who had carried the children up there. And he resented being there.12 Note that there are several important things mentioned from Eliza. First, blacks were “allowed” not forced into integrating; whether that meant the white schools would just be forced to accept them or had the choice of rejecting them is unknown. Second, the boy who is the father’s son is the same one who bullied the girl. One could say his actions were his way of speaking out against being at an integrated school when he wanted otherwise. Third, the children were taken to the white school by the father alone. There is no indication whether or not the children’s parents had any say in it, or had any knowledge of what was going on until it could have been too late. The son himself could have had more time to adjust rather than being spontaneously pushed into a difficult and new situation. All in all, this situation could have been avoided if the black father had taken things more slowly and perhaps at least talked with the other parents before taking control of their children’s future. But using only Eliza’s recount of the story, there are several things NOT accounted for: the pressure to/to not integrate, bonuses/disadvantages to integrating, the reason(s) for which the father took the approach he did, or what could have happened otherwise. On the integration of white and black schools, there were numerous times where things did not go as well as the Board Of Education could have possibly hoped, especially when you looked into the circumstances of Stirrat. According to Eliza, the integration actually varied per location in the school. There WERE some instructors who did not discriminate on black and white, but there were those instructors who did discriminate against the black children. If the black children did not mention their problems, it went unannounced.13 One final thing to note from Eliza Jane Dillard is the interracial relationships between her children and other ethnic groups. Eliza specifically states how her eldest son marries a “Mexican” girl from Texas. Eliza tells him how “Now both of you will receive prejudice…You will get prejudices from both her and your race.” While they were still a couple at the time of the interview with Eliza, she claimed her son and stepdaughter still went through the discrimination that they had when they got married.14 In looking at all that Eliza has offered us, we now have a truly complex collection of information concerning the relationships between blacks and whites of Eliza’s time. The next discussion concerns Florestine Holland, another black schoolteacher. For Florestine Holland, the first area of discussion concerning relationships between blacks and whites revolves around her family tree. When Florestine researched history on her father’s side of the family, she discovered that she actually could not find any African-Americans in the family tree. However, Florestine did find out about her father being mixed, while he had a white father and a black mother, which was the only black part of his family tree. Her father’s side of the family was the Hopkins, while her mother’s side of the family was the Browns.15 As I have gone through different reports over people’s biographies, it seems that many times that when there were mixed blood in the family pre-1960, the father would often be white, with the mother being black. It’s possible I could be wrong, but it seems to be a trend of some sort. Florestine’s father also had interactions with whites. As Florestine mentions in her interview, white people would often come to her father’s household. Daddy worked on the railroad. And he had a job, he was, they called him an engineer helper. But he was really the engineer. And they [the white people] said that he could take one of those engines apart and you could blindfold him and he could put it back together. And my daddy, uh—because we could never understand it. After we got grown, Daddy done all the plumbing and electrical work. Now there’s a row of houses on Cumberland Road, and he wired all of those houses, he and three more.16 This tells us some incredible pieces of information. First, the fact that people of the opposite ethnical group were able to enter Florestine’s father’s household, and Florestine herself not making a big deal about it, shows an amazing degree of trust between her father and the white men in the community. Second, the description that the white men gave for him at work. He was called the “engineer helper”. It could be assumed that the official engineer was white, as well as that the blacks at that time weren’t given the higher jobs. So for the white men working on the railroad to consider him “really the engineer” meant that his technical skills surpassed the engineer he was supposed to be an assistant to. For the white men also to speak of her father’s supposed ability to do work blindfolded, shows the amount of respect a different ethnic group would have for another. Finally, Florestine mentions how on Cumberland Road (which is in Wheeling, West Virginia) there is a row of houses that he and three other people wired. If any of those houses happened to be not black, but white, it would show the amount of trust those white families would have had to trust Florestine’s father with their own households. As a schoolteacher helping teach for special education students at an integrated school named Bluestone, located in Princeton, WV, Florestine actually saw a developmental change in the students from when she had taught at an all-black school named Blackstone. She claimed that at the all-black school, there were plays and opererettas “we had all kinds of things, and see, I got all of that training. But the children coming along now, they don’t get any of it. When we had integration—I mean, segregated schools—their social life was different. And as I said, the children participated in everything. And nowadays, I look at the choir and it’s a shame.” And “the teachers are working themselves to death. And they won’t even, don’t even want to give them a, a hundred dollar raise.”17 Before integration took place, the 1895 case of Plessy vs. Ferguson stated that segregated schools should be “separate but equal.” Based on Florestine’s mentioning of the creative activities that took place, it seemed that even though the Blackstone school was segregated, it still was fortunate to have efficient conditions and the instructors also received the appropriate training. But now it seems that such a thing changed when she went to the integrated Bluestone school. More specifically even in the classes where there were both black and white students, some black students were not even allowed to participate. “Like I told you that child said, they put Virginia in the corner. And Virginia said they gave her something to color. And I just couldn’t believe that.” Florestine spoke with other [white] instructors at Princeton and was shocked to learn that this was their method at integrated schools for treating black students. “That’s where I got it from…them. Said that we didn’t have anything and we were poor, said, we didn’t get, we didn’t stand a chance.” The discrimination of the whites in control of the school system complicated the Board of Education’s attempts to make positive results with integration. The discrimination and favoritism of the white instructors ruined the desires of the black students to do their best. “The black teachers really worked hard with the kids…and they didn’t just pick a certain bunch of children. They worked with all of them…to see to it that they have a good education” in the now integrated school system “But the children coming along now, they don’t get any of it. They got to be real smart, in order, the black kids got to be very smart, in order for them to be in it [choir], unless they have a teacher like I was. They won’t put these children in it.”18 During the time of the “separate but equal” act for the school systems, there were numerous times when the rules were subtly disobeyed. This was done at times by giving the black school systems inferior material and training, etc. When the schools were forced to be integrated, the white members of the system were still able to disobey the rules simply by following the word of the law, not the spirit. In other words, they simply let the black students come to the school, but otherwise tried their hardest to make it difficult for the black students to gain any sort of experience whatsoever. At many times, this could maybe be considered one of the more negative happenings relating to the interactions of the blacks and whites happening around the time of 1960. Another teacher to consider is Susie Guyton from Mercer County. Guyton speaks of a major negative event concerning Bluefield State College, where white college students (who did it was not found) were responsible for a major racist bombing attack on the school property called Concord using dynamite from an elevator construction project several years before the incident. A new gym was built in its place where its name was given to it based off a racist family by the last name of Shott. The result of the bombing and the new gym’s racist name caused a good deal of black instructors to quit. This was actually an attempt by Bluefield president Hardway to “disarrange…And when I say change things around, get rid of certain things or people”. He had basically been trying throughout his term as university president to get as many blacks removed as possible. For every black schoolteacher that resigned, Hardway immediately had a white schoolteacher take that black man or woman’s place. At that time, Guyton was teaching at the all-black school of Bramwell.19 Guyton found another problem when she was forced to end up teaching at Bramwell after it had become an integrated school. Unlike the classes in the formerly all black school, the new white school did not do things by school grade level, but rather by performance grade level. In other words, they had put the black students into the C ranks, the B ranks, but very few of the A ranks. Guyton took care of a remedial program where she had only the poor whites and the blacks. Other black students in the classes in the school were put into situations where there would be discipline problems resulting from a confliction of people and settings. Sometimes the black students were put into places where they had nothing at all to do, which also caused trouble. Finally, out of the twenty instructors at the Bramwell School, only she and two other instructors were black. Not only that, but while Guyton was forced to teach the remedial class (consisting mainly of reading and spelling), the other instructors were supposed to only teach in the C rank and B rank areas. Even though they had the training necessary to teach students in the A ranks, the A rank level was reserved for white instructors only. “Well, they resented it cause they felt that they could teach the A section as well as any of the others. They resented it.”20 According to Guyton, she feels that the white students at the integrated school were a bad influence on the black students! ‘I think, and I’ve said it and I might be wrong, that we have a tendency to copy, to do what the white kids do. And, and our culture’s much different, at that time it was different, because certain things we weren’t allowed to do, weren’t allowed to say. I mean, we were respectful because we were taught that in homes. But anymore the kids aren’t.’ ‘RW-N: So integration of the schools was not all positive in your eyes?’ SG: ’No, it was not. No it was not.’21 Guyton implied that the misbehaviors of the white students ended up affecting the black students by causing them to repeat several of the same bad behaviors. This included—in her observations—bringing alcohol to school, not doing class work, and fights. However, Guyton claimed that the reverse was happening as well. Basically, she was claiming that the whites were picking up good traits from the blacks at the very same time! “Uh, just as said before, we’ve picked up things from other people. And then I guess they, in turn, have picked up things from us.” An example would be speech. “Well, the way they talk, you know. We have a way of expressing ourselves; we our always quick with words, you know…Uh, and I see that the others are pickin’ up that too, now…So we’re, we’re, we’re, say, learning from each other…”22 Also, while teaching at Bramwell when it was integrated, Guyton did happen to find a white instructor there who was of moral character, or at least a person good-hearted enough to be her friend. “Well, it was—I still have her. And she’s very close to me. Uh, she was a home economics teacher that we taught at Bramwell together. And she’s at Princeton now. And I see her quite often.” Guyton and her friend were so close, the only reason Guyton didn’t visit her friend’s house while they taught is because her friend owned a cat, which Guyton did not like. On her husband’s interactions, a white friend of his sometimes ended up staying at his house as well.23 This goes to show that a group of racist whites did not affect the whole lot of white individuals at the schools. Finally, Susie Guyton was comfortable enough allowing two of her children (her eldest daughter, and Deidre, her son) to date white people. While at first Guyton was very uncomfortable with the thought of allowing interracial dating (maybe it came from her experience with the integrated school system, but there is no clear answer). However, Guyton eventually ended up giving in accepting her children’s dating whites. It did help that she knew the parents of the girl Deidre was dating. While Guyton claimed she would not have been fond of the idea at the time, she would have accepted allowing her children to marry.24 Susie Guyton represents some of the more extreme views concerning racism when it came to African-Americans. Her viewpoint on integration was that it seemed to make matters worse, rather than better, only if originally so. Still, Guyton was flexible enough in her views to be friends with a fellow white instructor, as well as allow her children to date white people. The final schoolteacher who we can use for a point-of-view is Norma-Jean Fullen. Norma-Jean Fullen came across the same issue as Susie Guyton when it came to the matter of integrated schools and how blacks were treated unfairly there. In fact, Norma-Jean’s retelling of the actions that transpired at the school she taught almost completely mirror Guyton’s choice of words, especially when responding to how the interviewer was asking for her opinion on if the “black children lost out on the deal” when integration happened. “Because many of the white teachers didn’t want them there in the beginning. So, if they sat in a corner and didn’t do their work, they didn’t care, as long as they sat in that classroom and were quiet. As long as they didn’t disrupt the class. They didn’t care if they learned or not. So, integration has hurt a lot of black students.” Norma-Jean went on to say that even today in the long-since integrated schools, there is still forms of segregation going on. While she was a student at Marshall, there were three black students in a particular class. One girl, Margie Ann Cobb, was a brilliant student according to Norma-Jean. The second did not even go to class. The third person was Norma-Jean herself. Norma-Jean carried a B-average, Margie an A-average. Despite their academic abilities, their teacher gave them C’s regardless. Even the boy who almost never came was given a C instead of an F because while the teacher did not want them to fail to the point of suspicion, the teacher still wanted them to come close.25 So why would Norma-Jean still want to believe in integrated schools? The answer was because she had hope for the chances to come. “Because of the opportunities…they were supposed to be separate but equal. They were not equal.” Integrating with white schools would end up giving much better resources, so it was a necessary risk. Still, both Norma-Jean and Guyton commented on the indifference and/or mistreatment of the black students. Yet nowhere in her summary of the schools does Norma-Jean speak of any help or niceness of white staff members. While this does not necessarily mean she is anti-white herself, her viewpoint can be considered a little one-sided. However, Norma-Jean raises an interesting debate when she talks about how her kids let a white female classmate go back home with them. Unfortunately, the reverse-situation is not the case, as the white girl’s family refuses to allow Norma-Jean’s children to visit their house in return. Norma-Jean considers this circumstance to be an example of integration.26 All these women, when you compare their viewpoints together, have one thing in common: A mixed view. There have been plenty of good relationships, and there have been bad experiences as well. But in all the cases, there is variety, and that goes to show how African-Americans in West Virginia did NOT fit the “absolute victim” profile. They went into a variety of categories. Even today, it is said that many ethnic groups continue to go through the same process. 1 Ancella Bickley, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The remarkable story of a black Appalachian woman (Athens: Ohio University Press, 2001), XXV. 2 Ancella Bickley, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The remarkable story of a black Appalachian woman (Athens: Ohio University Press, 2001), XXV. 3 Ancella Bickley, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The remarkable story of a black Appalachian woman (Athens: Ohio University Press, 2001), XXV. 4 Ancella Bickley, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The remarkable story of a black Appalachian woman (Athens: Ohio University Press, 2001), XXV. 5 Ancella Bickley, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The remarkable story of a black Appalachian woman (Athens: Ohio University Press, 2001), 5. 6 Ancella Bickley, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The remarkable story of a black Appalachian woman (Athens: Ohio University Press, 2001), 42; 77. 7 Ancella Bickley, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The remarkable story of a black Appalachian woman (Athens: Ohio University Press, 2001), 42; 77; 79; 86. 8 Eliza Jane Dillard, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #792, p.2; 10. 9 Eliza Jane Dillard, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #792, p.47-48. 10 Eliza Jane Dillard, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #792, p. 61-62. 11 Eliza Jane Dillard, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #792, p. 66-67. 12 Eliza Jane Dillard, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #792, p.77-78. 13 Eliza Jane Dillard, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #792, p.79-81 14 Eliza Jane Dillard, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #792, p. 84. 15 Florestine Holland, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #799, p. 7-8. 16 Florestine Holland, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #799, p. 36. 17 Florestine Holland, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #799, p. 85-86. 18 Florestine Holland, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #799, p. 85. 19 Susie Guyton, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #797, p. 28-29. 20 Susie Guyton, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #797, p. 31-32. 21 Susie Guyton, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #797, p. 49 22 Susie Guyton, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #797, p. 50. 23 Susie Guyton, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #797, p. 56-57. 24 Susie Guyton, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #797, p. 58. 25 Norma-Jean Fullen, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #796, p. 33-35. 26 Norma-Jean Fullen, Marshall University Oral History Appalachia, #796, p. 36-37.